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Host:Hi Winnie, how are you doing today? I wanted to ask a few questions about your journey in STEM!

Winnie Lai-Fong:Yeah, most certainly.

Host:Sounds good. To start off, can you tell me a little bit about yourself?

Winnie Lai-Fong:Okay sure, yes. I am a first generation Chinese Canadian with immigrant parents that moved here in the seventies. So I think in a way they have imparted to me work ethics that make up who I am today. Professionally, I'm an engineer by training and have moved to the business side with a focus on program management. But I have always will have that geeky or tech-y side to me because the technology side is always near and dear to my heart. On a personal level, I'm a wife and the mother of two teenagers, two teenagers to, I am very proud of.

What else, as a person, I'm someone who's always on the lookout for the next challenge to stretch myself, the next thing to learn, the next thing to tackle, to make things better. So you can say that I'm not entirely content with the status quo, but I having said that I'm very grateful for what I have in life. So I'm very active in giving back, giving back to my faith community, to my professional community, my children's extracurricular community, and also to give back by investing in young talents at work. So I love developing people and helping them to grow and achieve beyond what they thought they could.

Host:You sound very passionate about STEM. So what inspired you or who inspired you to pursue a career in STEM?

Winnie Lai-Fong:I'd have to say it goes all the way back to high school when I was in grade 11. So my grade 11 physics teacher, I really enjoyed physics and the pivotal point was when he recommended, he highly encouraged me to apply for the summer program at SFU, where they were looking for several summer students to work in the physics department for research projects. And with his encouragement, I applied and I was chosen. I was one of the five people chosen. I was the only girl. I was only 16 at that time. And after working with the other four guys that summer, I came to realize that I could do anything that they could do. And with a passion for STEM, you know they talked a lot about engineering and STEM and I thought, “hey, that's very interesting too”, and I can do that. So I would say that really kind of was a pivotal point of my STEM journey. It was that summer. So what started it was my physics teacher and working with other people, but what really is sustaining and has sustained my journey in STEM was really various female engineers and also professors along the way that they have become true role models for me.

Host:Sounds like a very unique experience you had with like the only female part. So during your journey in STEM, did you have any challenges that you had to face?

Winnie Lai-Fong:I'd say no looking back, you know, because when I went to UBC in engineering, there were very few girls, there were only four girls out of a class of a hundred. So I think that disparity was a bit of a challenge by itself. But looking back, the biggest challenge was probably being in the first cohort of UBC four year engineering program. So prior to that year, UBC engineering was a five-year thing. It was a first year science and then four year engineering. But that particular year they decided to try for the first time to combine everything into four years, which meant that it was really combining first year science with first year engineering.

And it was really, I would say super hard, super challenging. I don't ever recall working that hard in my entire life. There were 70 of us that started the program and after first year, there were only slightly over 40 of us left. And in fact, the hard work wasn't just at first, it was like all four years. It was really hard work. So I would say really what taught me doing the four-year program was perseverance, discipline, and hard work. And those have become part of my values and work ethics as I move from a student to the working world.

Host:You got lots of values and very like life lessons from that experience. Through all those experiences, you got a very amazing job. So what do you love about your job? And you might want to introduce a little bit about your job as well.

Winnie Lai-Fong:Okay sure. What I do at Telus is program management for a technician systems of engagement. So this is basically the applications and systems for technicians to get their work schedule to them and how they interact with customers and the rest of Telus. So what I love about it is that I get to leverage technology to improve the quality of everyday life, everyday life for the technicians and for the customers to make it easier for them to communicate with each other, to make transactions easier between the customers and the technicians, and also for technicians to stay informed.

I know that I'm making a difference because I get positive feedback from the users of the systems. So precisely it is the technicians who have given very positive feedback saying that it has made the everyday job easier. It has cut certain times for them so that they don't have to spend as long waiting for certain things, basically has made their everyday work life easier and more enjoyable. So I find that very satisfying. Another thing that I really like about my work is that I get to drive the system strategy, the application strategy for the technicians, and have I also have the project team and the resources to execute on the strategy and also be able to measure the improvements that these projects are giving.

So when you think about it, it is really an end to end ownership, and it's very satisfying to see how an idea moves from the concept stage all the way to reality and delivering bottom line benefits to the company, and also improvements to team engagement, the people who are using the systems.

Host:It seems like your job has both STEM side and business side. So what catalyzed your motivation to pursue a career with such fields?

Winnie Lai-Fong:Yeah, that's a good question. I'd have to look back and say that it was something that I realized and learned about myself when I was doing a masters program. So I was doing a master's in applied science after my bachelor's degree. And my focus at that time was integrated optics. So essentially that was building an optical circuit on this very special material. And so besides doing mathematical modeling and computer simulation of the optical waves, I also had to work in a lab to make the actual optical circuit. And, you know, if you think about it was, that was not geeky, true, geeky stem.

I don't know what was right, but as I was working in the lab, I realized that I was not very good at that type of work. I was not very good at delicate work. I kept breaking things. I don't recall how many pieces of that precious optical materials I had broken. I just made my professor cringe. I'd made myself cringe and because I kept breaking the optics material, I was very slow in my lab work. And not only that, I realized that I was also not very careful with chemicals because as part of that lab work, I had to use chemicals to clean, to process the materials itself.

And how did I realize that I was careless with it, even though I was working under the fume hood, I found perfectly round holes on top of my socks. So we're talking about holes, not in the toe part of my socks, but on top of my feet. And the only way that those holes could have gotten there was I had inadvertently dropped some tiny droplets of some corrosive material on top of my socks. So all of that really made me realize that, yeah, I was really not careful and to top it off. I also found that I didn't like working in isolation. As part of my research, I had to work in a cold laser light lab to do different measurements.

And I found that was not really what I enjoy doing. I, I really wanted to be working with people, to bounce ideas off people instead of working in isolation. So all in all I'd say through self-discovery, I found that I, I thought I enjoyed pure research, but actually I enjoyed it less than I had thought. And I found that I really like working in a team environment and that's what really steered me towards to more on the business side than pure stem. And now I say that you know, my career now has both the stem and business side. And as I look back in the various years of my career, I can say that it has gradually been shifting more from stem to business, such that today is predominantly business with a much smaller stem component.

Host:You took a very unique approach, now I am wondering, did you have any troubles like adjusting to the business career without prior business education?

Winnie Lai-Fong:A lot of it was on the job training and I'd have to say that had some very good mentors along the way. One of my managers was really, really good with project management and through her, I learned a lot about project management. What does it mean? And that also sparked my own interest to take courses online, to learn more about project management and program management.

Another one of my mentor was someone that was really good at thinking strategically looking at strategic planning and looking at how to measure benefits for a project and from him, I learned that yes is important to have a strategy for any project and is just as important to be able to think about measuring the benefits of the outcome at the onset of the project and not at the end, such it can built in measurements along the way so that you can measure the progress. And at the end, you can say definitively, whether you've actually met your goal or not, and how it is performing and how it has helped the company. So I think those things has really kind of helped me along the way.

Host:It seems like you have a very long, interesting journey, high school, university, to even a career. In your opinion, what is the most interesting development and development in your field and why should people care about it?

Winnie Lai-Fong:Okay. Then I think I have to take a bit of a divergence from the technician side. Cause when I think of my field, it is really the telecommunications field, right? So the broad telecom, and I'd say the most exciting development in telecom is five G, which is the next generation of mobile technology. So we're currently on 4g. So our phones, mobile technologies on 4g. And why should people care about five G is because 5g will give us three things. It will give us higher speed, internet of things, and also lower latency.

I'm not going to go into details of how these things are going to help, but in combination, they really going to give us better productivity in terms of how work is being done, which it will be good for the Canadian economy. And as consumers, 5g will also give us better home automation, give us smarter homes, which if you think about it now there's a lot of home automation happening already today and there'll be even more with 5g and eventually going to smart cities. So smart cities would include things like autonomous cars cars that can communicate with each other.

And, and you may ask yourself, you know, why is it important for cars to communicate with each other? So an example would be, you know, if, if cars can communicate with each, each other, then even you, even if you're kind of driving it, you know, it's a bit autonomous and then there's an accident. If a car is the first car at the accident, sites can tell the other cars that, Hey, there's an accident here, take a different route. Then think about how much more efficient and better it is for people to avoid that traffic jam, that avoid accident sites. So that's just one example of what 5g is going to give us.

Host:That sounds very innovative. So throughout your journey. What were some of your life lessons?

Winnie Lai-Fong:Okay, so I'd say I'm going back to my university years you know, just having that perseverance and discipline what I learned in my engineering, my four year engineering program, that goes a long way. You know, these are habits that have served me really well and have helped have helped me to overcome challenges. So I'd say that the earlier someone develops those discipline early on in life and integrating the habits the better. And I guess the second thing is just be honest with yourself about what you like and what you don't like.

You know, some people maybe by the age of 12, you know, they know exactly what field they want to go into, but I'd say most people don't, or they change their mind multiple times and that's perfectly okay. So when I look back, you know, I thought I would like research, but I ended up liking business more. And ultimately what you want to do is to find something that you enjoy doing, that you're good at, and that you get paid for it, right? That's always tell people, you know, what you want, the intersection of those three things such that you know it's like a Venn diagram and you get three circles. And the intersection point is that sweet spot. I guess two other things I want to touch on is that, you know, being a lifelong learner and staying curious and keep learning, these are lessons that I've learned is very, very important. And I'm not talking about just in a formal learning and taking courses.

That's good too, but I'm talking about learning from other people, learning from people who are more experienced than myself, even people who are less experienced than myself, because when you think about it, almost everyone that we interact with, we can always learn something from them. And having this mindset has really helped me be more curious, be kinder and also more humble when I interact with people. And I say, finally, the last one last lesson that I've learned is that there's always a story behind the face. So often I think, you know, all of us, it's easy for us to be too quick to judge or label anyone label someone. And I know that I've done that many times in my life and only to find that I was wrong in my assumptions. So with age, I've learned to be slower to judge and allow room for the story to come out when I interact with people.

Host:Yeah. That could be a lesson for all of us. I do that as well so what was your favorite moment or part in your entire journey?

Winnie Lai-Fong:I'd say that's hard to say because there's been so many pivotal points and I really enjoy what I'm doing now. So I'd say just the learning process of self-discovery of finding out new things that I enjoy doing and integrating that into who I am integrating that into my practice and, and you know, that lifelong learning that being able to integrate strategy and technology and business and being able to measure the outcome and being good with numbers in terms of dollars, you know, doing the business case, managing capital, all of these things, I'd say these are really good skills that I've accumulated along the way. And, and I'd love to say that I planned it all out, but I didn't, you know, a lot of it was just kind of it happened along the way and I recognized that those were good things. I integrated them. So I would say that I'm very lucky, that way that along my journey, I learned many different things which have really added to my toolkit.

Host:Hmm. What are some of your advices to like high school students?

Winnie Lai-Fong:Uh I would say high school students, I would say conquer what you're most afraid of. So as an example when I was in high school, I was super, super fearful of public speaking. And that even lasted no until I was like in my early twenties. And, you know, when I say super fearful, what I mean is that I would get so nervous that I would feel like throwing up, you know, oh, you know, get all sweaty or just really be super nervous. And and that didn't serve me well. And that was the fear that it took me until I was, I think it was when I was 23, that I finally joined something called Toastmasters to practice public speaking.

So I would say that that was my case. I would say that to anyone, you know, in their teens that find out what you're most afraid of and look at it, head on in the eye, face it, conquer it, because really when you can conquer that first fear that will help you to become more courageous in looking at all your other fears and not let fear paralyze you because so often when we're afraid of something, we avoid it, we find different ways to bypass it, but that fear will always come back and will hinder us in our personal growth.

Host:I you talked a lot about giving back in the beginning. I know that you're doing something externally, which is like related to giving back. So can you tell me a little bit about that?

Winnie Lai-Fong:Okay, sure. I'd love to talk about bringing women together, which is intercompany organization to advance both diversity, inclusiveness and women in leadership. And it has six companies as a consortium. So it has to telus SAP, KPMG, Ascenture, Ledcor and Vancity, and together as a group of women and we're all volunteer and we don't get paid for this at all. You know, we put together events and forums to advance the discussion on women leadership and also how to advance diversity and inclusiveness and practices that each company can share with each other and also learn from each other. So that's something that I'm very excited and passionate about.

Host:What catalyzed you to be part of such an organization.

Winnie Lai-Fong:Part of it is my desire to help with that advancing women in leadership women in technology, just that looking at how we can help the, the broader people to bring in diverse ideas, because when you think about it overall, when we try to solve different solutions for the world, especially in the stem side a lot of times, if you look at solving solutions with people that are, that only represent a certain segment of the society which potentially right now, it's, you know, when you think about it, a lot of the decisions are being made by male, right? So predominantly, you know, that particular segment of the society when they make solutions. So when they look at solutions, it may not be comprehensive enough such that those solutions may benefit certain groups at the expense of others, but when you bring in DNI and how that intersects with stem and overall how we solve the world's problems, then it is a more comprehensive solution such that you will not have groups that become disadvantaged.

Host:So would you take any other opportunities as like cater towards inspiring others?

Winnie Lai-Fong:Yes certainly, I think of what I've done at at the workplace, I have been instrumental in starting a lot of leadership programs and that is my way of giving back to investing and develop and developing young talent. So I was the, one of the founders of the engineering in training program at Telus, or I would say instrumental in revamping it many years ago because I was part of that program and having gone through that I wanted to make it better. At the same time I've had, I've had started two or three other leadership development programs at telus for either new hires or people trying to move from one particular job profile to a different types of jobs. So I really see that I'm investing in, developing in others is something that I'm very passionate about. And so that doesn't only apply to the, the adult or the working world, but even for, for students.

When I think about the importance of stem and overall investing in students and young people in, in stem I see stem as a way to help break this cycle of poverty for disadvantaged children. Because when you think about it disadvantaged families, the, for the children to, to learn, they may not even have the tools and to be able to help with and telus very good at providing a lot of these, you know, internet for good, in terms of helping some of these disadvantaged families. And when you think about how stem usually leads to better paying jobs that will help to break the cycle of poverty for young children.

Host:That's very inspiring, that's a lot of insightful experience you shared with us today. Thank you so much for coming on Unlocking STEM.

Winnie Lai-Fong:Thank you. Love chatting with you and good luck with your studies and your program as well.

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